Exploring Alternative Solutions for 
Laboratory Staffing

Okay, I think we'll get started. So thank you again for joining us today. First, I'll introduce 
myself. My name is Julie Son. I am a consultant with Guidehouse supporting the CDC's OneLab 
initiative. I just want to cover a few housekeeping items before we dive in today. So, at any 
moment, if you are experiencing any technical difficulties with Zoom, please contact our 
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So with that, next slide please. I briefly want to go over today's agenda. So we'll be 
starting off with discussing some new and relevant resources from OneLab. And then get into 
introductions to today's presenters. And after that we will have a wonderful presentation from 
Mr. Mike Baron. And again, we'll have about 10 minutes for a Q & A session. We'll most likely 
get through as many of the questions as we can during that session. And then we'll wrap off 
and close today's session with a list of upcoming OneLab Network events. 
Next slide, please. And then for today's session, we'll be enabling our chat feature here.
We encourage you all to use this feature to connect with each other, as well as utilize the 
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know and report any issues to us via that email address shared earlier. So with that, I will be 
turning this over to our OneLab Network lead, Alicia Branch, to discuss our new and relevant 
resources. Thank you.
Thank you. Julie. Before we begin the main presentation, I'd like to share a new OneLab 
resource. It's the Routine Microscopy Procedures e-learning course. It's now available on 
OneReach. This is an introductory course, e-learning course. It covers microscopy procedures 
for smear preparation, preparing and interpreting results from Gram stains, wet mounts, 
potassium hydroxide and India ink procedures. It is an excellent course for microbiology and 
science students, new or existing clinical and public health laboratory professionals. Or anyone 
who kind of needs some basic microscopy e-learning training or refresher training. The course is
approved for 1.5 contact hours of P.A.C.E. credit. To access the course, scan or snap a 
picture of the QR code and take the course after today's webinar. 
Now I'll read two, next slide, please. I'll read two disclaimers. The first one is our CDC 
disclaimer. And then the second one will be the P.A.C.E disclaimer. Slide decks may contain 
presentation material from panelists who may not necessarily be affiliated with CDC. 
Presentation content from external panelists may not necessarily reflect CDC's official position 
on the topics covered.
Next slide, please. CDC, our planners, our presenters, wish to disclose that we have no 
financial interests or other relationships with the manufacturers of commercial products, 
suppliers of commercial services, or commercial supporters.
Next slide, please. And now I am really excited to introduce our OneLab Network 
presenter, Mr. Mike Baron. Mike has been at the, he has been the executive director of 
laboratory operations for the Wisconsin Diagnostic Laboratories for over 6 years and has 
worked in the clinical and laboratory field for 33 years. He has implemented numerous 
alternative staffing solutions to meet the Wisconsin Diagnostic Laboratories' staffing needs.
He's a retired US Army Reserve Lieutenant Colonel with various leadership roles in the armed 
forces. He has led the Wisconsin Diagnostic Laboratories through the ISO 15189 accreditation,
and is one of the recipients of the Medical Laboratory Observer's 2024 Lab of the Year runner
up awards. He has much passion for sharing staffing solutions to keep your laboratory from 
being short-staffed, as with the Wisconsin Diagnostic Laboratories noting an impressive 4% 
vacancy rate. Our presenter for today is Mr. Mike Baron. 
Hello, all, welcome and thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak with you all 
this morning. Coming here from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I'm going to be working on sharing my 
screen here as I'm speaking.
So here's the topic as she mentioned. A couple other kinds of messaging to share is if 
you have any more interest in this topic, I've been published a couple of times in different 
laboratory magazines if you want to read about it further.
Most notable was CAP Today for the August 2022 edition and the first article in that
magazine. And more recently in the Dark Report, if you receive that magazine. They also give 
you a reference. You get a PDF file of the actual report. From April, 29, 2024. So that's more 
recent. As you can see, I have my key agenda topics up for today's discussion. Like they 
mentioned, I have a lot of passion for staffing in the laboratory. 
Currently my lab does not have a single temporary employee, within the laboratory. 
We're able to staff within our own team members and train them appropriately and you'll see 
how we get that accomplished. First off is, as you can see, are the key topics. We'll talk about 
gaining awareness of working in the clinical lab early on. I note that that's always a challenge. 
And we've, I've done studies in audits where we're finding that most folks don't even 
know this career even exists. So we're trying to change that. You know, how can you track these 
quality team members? I also instilled a several programs in the laboratory. 
And most notable is the non-certified tech program, which I'll talk about 
in depth, and the apprenticeship program with the state of Wisconsin, which I'll talk 
about. It is maybe something you can consider with the state that you're from. 
And if you're from Wisconsin, this program is available for you. We'll talk about training 
commitment and resources involved in this and one program that we're in the process of rolling 
out is the medical lab assistant program. And then there's some additional NCT programs that I 
have been working on in the lab.
All right, as you are all aware, the staffing shortage in the clinical lab is not probably new 
to any of you all. 
You're all probably addressing different staffing issues or crisis potentially within the lab. 
There's an extreme shortage of certified folks available. 
So the first thing that I've been working on is gaining awareness in this career choice
within the clinical lab. That is a challenge for us all because we are, you know, dealing with the 
limited number of certified techs available through the different college programs. 
So one thing here first is, I encourage you to support your local colleges. Here in 
Milwaukee, we have UW-Milwaukee, we have Marquette University, we have Milwaukee Area 
Technical College, which all have different programs, either a CLS or MLT program. Which we 
provide an internship for these folks and more than not they end up coming to our laboratory 
after we spend the time with them in the laboratory. Learning our laboratory is part of their 
curriculum. So if you have the ability, I know some labs struggle with bringing you know outside 
students in to give them this internship opportunity, but it is a feeder process for your 
laboratory. 
So if at all possible, please work it out. I know the challenges that can be associated with 
that. But I think the challenges pay off in the long run when you bring those folks in, especially 
when they're trained within your laboratory.
The other thing I've done, successfully is, I've made connections with the PARC 
(Preparation, Action, Reflection, and Celebration), in the public instruction here in Wisconsin.
And working on developing relationships and creating programs. Most notably working 
on creating a lab assistant and a phlebotomy program, more of a student apprenticeship 
program for, you know, high schoolers in the junior or senior year which you can get them in 
your laboratory early, actually get them to perform work in the lab early on. So I think it's 
beneficial for the student and the school and also gains interest in the student right off the 
front.
Some of you might be aware of HOSA, for future health professionals. It's a program 
that's nationwide. I support the local Wisconsin chapters through the state of Wisconsin. I 
spoke at this recent Conference. We also had a booth there talking to students. There was over 
1,100, I believe, students at this conference. So reaching a lot of folks and teaching them about 
the clinical lab career. I spoke about the clinical lab career in, you know, in a session with them, 
the conference that they support. So it's a great opportunity to pass the word. Most people are 
aware of ASCLS and the conferences they have here again. 
We supported the ASCLS conference in the state of Wisconsin. We had a booth. And 
there again, we had speakers.
I spoke last year about the career and we had several speakers from Wisconsin 
Diagnostics lab at the conference this year to help present our lab and what we offer. And just 
presenting to folks, you know, in the clinical lab field. Some of the solutions that they can have 
for staffing. Or other areas within the laboratory. 
Oh, like I mentioned before, youth have apprenticeship programs. They're offered more 
abundantly than I was aware of. The Milwaukee public school system has a youth 
apprenticeship program where we could bring in students into somewhere similar to our MLA 
program and get them experience on a job. Actually get them started working on a career here 
in the laboratory as a, you know, as a high school student.
There's also, private schools that we've been discovering also that have this 
opportunity.
There again, you know, it's a challenge to bring these folks in. You gotta spend time with 
them. However, I think it'll pay dividends when these folks get that experience in your 
laboratory and they want to come to your lab as a permanent employee.
Also I've spoken at different conferences throughout the state, most notably the 
Wisconsin Clinical Lab Network. 
Your state may have a similar type of network where there's clinical lab folks that speak 
about different topics in the lab, and I spoke about our staffing solutions and some of the things 
that we bring here at WDL.
The Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene is more of our state laboratory. And they have a 
bunch of communication that goes out throughout the state. 
Which means they will communicate some of these staffing solutions, as well as the 
apprenticeship program for laboratories to use within the state of Wisconsin. 
So another resource for awareness. And then you know most notably obviously is I'll 
probably participate in different college or local job fairs.
There again, it may not be necessarily gaining immediate placement of folks, but you're 
passing the word and making people familiar.
There's a lot of college students out there not sure on what to do. Then you give them 
an opportunity to talk about the a clinical lab field. 
So the big part of it is ASCLS believes, you know, as you can see here, that education is 
an important part of it. As you'll discover my non-certified tech program. I take this to heart and 
a part of our program is providing students with classroom instruction.
And that's what I'll be talking about here in the coming slides. So part of this is attracting 
qualified lab team members and who are these folks? Where do they come from? There's 
many. In fact, When before I rolled out my non-certified tech program, I reached out through a 
blind ad for college students with biology, chemistry, or related-type degrees interested 
working in the clinical lab. And I had many, many resumes coming through on this interest. 
Even though it was kind of a blind job, it wasn't even a true job. It was kind of 
determining what interest we had.
So when we put out advertisements for non-certified techs working in the clinical lab 
with these backgrounds. 
So we're hiring into these roles, our candidates that we're looking for are strong science 
students that have a transcript that shows they meet the CLIA ‘88 requirements, you know they 
have the certain course load in biology to chemistry and so forth. 
Not sure what those requirements are off the top of my head. But we evaluate that 
through HR and the manager teams, you know, review these transcripts, review the resumes. 
And truly we get, you know, when you put out an ad for an opening in the laboratory, we get 
dozens and dozens of resumes.
And we get to pick through the best of the best of these candidates. As opposed to, if 
you put an ad out for a certified clinical lab scientist, a lot of times you're lucky to get a single 
resume, if any. So it does open the door for a lot more candidates. But there is some work that 
goes into getting these folks up to speed, however. 
We are finding that you get high quality candidates that you can mold and develop into 
the clinical lab scientists that works within your laboratory. 
So also, we afford them that on the job experience as they come in. And we give them 
education in the laboratory. More notably, I have I hired in a lab trainer whose whole mission is 
to develop clinical lab curriculum. 
So they're giving them classroom instructions. So they're going to class as well as 
working. We pay them for both their time in the classroom as well as in the laboratory. So 
we're basically handing a career to a college graduate that may not necessarily know what 
they're going to do with a biology degree or chemistry degree. It's not real clear cut where 
you're going to go. 
And honestly, I was one of those students back in the late eighties. Where I came out of 
college and didn't really know what I wanted to do and I was afforded this opportunity through 
a local laboratory.
So the main motivation for creating this program was my given past experience. And we 
do a part of that classroom as we prepare for the ASCP certification. Since we're training them 
in specific specialties we're basically going through the ASCP route because they offer 
certification in the specialty area. You can see on my letters after my name I’m C(ASCP), so I'm 
certified in clinical chemistry only. Not as a clinical lab scientist with a generalist background. So 
that's how I started my career in the chemistry department.
Got a classroom instruction. You know, had my year experience then became A/C ASCP 
certified after that 1st year first year’s experience on the job. 
So what led me to where I'm at now to develop this program within my own laboratory. 
It founded to meet a specific need. We are in a big struggle, especially on second shift. Which, 
to be honest with you, most of our second shifts now are non-certified techs, as we become 
certified. 
There are different degrees of training and education within our laboratory. So like I 
said, you know, the non-certified program recruits graduates with bachelor's degrees, with 
meeting the CLIA requirements. We do pay these folks like I mentioned before.
We pay a non-certified tech salary, which is a good entry-level-type pay for a college 
graduate.
Once they become certified we immediately promote them and give them an increase 
in pay. To become a clinical lab scientist at that point. 
My decision is to name them as a clinical lab scientist in the laboratory, even though 
they're certified in single specialty.
Our laboratory is large enough where they generally only work in a single specialty area. 
So I didn't wanna create a, you know, caste system where folks are either generalists or 
certified in a single area. 
So we treat them all equally. Oh, so like I said, on the job training, classroom instruction 
and then ASCP certification is what we provide. 
Or we provide the education to achieve that certification after one year. So that's what 
the requirement is: a bachelor’s degree, one year experience at an accredited laboratory. You 
can become certified after a single year. 
Our expectation is that these folks gain their certification. We encourage them to apply 
for the certification immediately when they're eligible, and take the exam early while the 
knowledge is still fresh in their head. But we give them up to 24 to 30 months to gain the 
certification.
So it's not a lifelong position for us if you're unable to get certified within that period of 
time. We have to either move on or select a role within the laboratory that they're eligible for. 
They meet the requirements.
A lot of times that'd be a moving down to a lab assistant. Which we also, you know, 
would hope that they would continue the certification process. As you know, to gain 
certification you can take the exam more than one time. So that in that period of time, they 
generally have enough time to get at least three attempts under their belt. But, we've had that 
happen with one of our candidates. 
But for the most part, most of them getting in the first try. And some on the second try, 
if you are wondering. So pros and cons to this non-certified tech program, obviously there's 
both. One thing I mentioned immediately is we get a lot of candidates.
We get a good selection pool. Folks and very engaged, very smart and motivated 
individuals that we can select from. 
Because they have that educational background in biology and chemistry, they generally 
have a good solid background and learn the laboratory quickly. You know, we're really training 
them on the clinical lab-specific stuff in the classroom instruction. 
Entry pay is, you know, until they achieve certification, so it's lower cost labor, I guess, 
initially. But we don't look at it that way. We look at it as an opportunity to train them.
You know, they're bringing value to themselves and the laboratory during that time. And 
then we, like I said, we've noticed good success with folks learning the material. Learning the 
clinical lab environment, learning the lingo, the language. And you know, working well with the 
clinical lab scientists that have gone through the traditional route. The cons, like I mentioned, 
they generally get certified in the generalist, not in the generalist area, but in a specific specialty 
field. 
Most of our folks are taking secondary research in the core area, so we're encouraging 
them. And we're training them in chemistry and hematology, which includes urinanalysis and
coagulation. So really, encouraging them to gain the certification in both specialties is for their 
advantage, over the long run. If they decide to leave WDL or go elsewhere, that will probably 
put them in a better place. And like, a con is, there no guarantee. We put in this time and 
energy, we train them, we pay them, and they don't necessarily need to stay around. 
We don't, we don't necessarily, you know, think they'll stick around. We hope they are.
We hope that there is some loyalty and respect to be gained for our laboratory for the efforts 
we put forward. So, what does, so what also I was talking about previously is the apprenticeship 
program. I didn't speak much about that. 
I talked about the program where we train them on the job. The other alternative, 
which I've created with the department of public force in Wisconsin, Workforce Development, 
is an apprenticeship program. So we created a draft of a contract that any laboratory in the 
state of Wisconsin can pick up and contract with a candidate and a local university. So the big 
advantage here for labs that can't afford to pay a trainer, or have the workforce, the support 
training. 
This, arrangement with the local university. And we, work with the Milwaukee Area 
Technical College. For chemistry and hematology it equates to two semesters, which works out 
well. It fits within that year time frame that they need to become eligible for certification. 
They take their coursework at the school. We pay them for the time they're going to 
school. And the travel back and forth. We also pay for their parking, books, and the tuition fees. 
So. Big, big benefit to them. They get total credit for the college coursework, the credits that
they gain from the college. You know, they have a college transcript that supports the 
education they achieved. We’re paying for it and it's really good education for them.
So. It works well, you know, the differences between that and I probably have another 
slide that talks more about it.
Let me move forward then. 
The apprenticeship program is, like I was mentioning, there's pros and cons. The biggest 
pro to this is that you don't have to pay for that.
Well, you do pay for the training or you don't have to, though it depends on how you 
want to set it up. 
We chose to pay for the tuition which, from an expense standpoint, the amount of 
money it takes to develop a new person in your laboratory, it's actually inexpensive. Also the 
state can reimburse you, offset some of the tuition costs. Some states have some grant money 
available. In their case, Wisconsin is $3,500 per student. So that in this case here would pay for 
their tuition.
So not much of a concern in that regard. The limited con part of it is that the classroom 
instruction doesn't necessarily correlate as well as we're able to do with own trainer, what area 
of the lab they're working in. They might be working in chemistry, but this semester they're 
working in hematology. So you're not gonna, you know, have that equal correlation to it. And 
some of the students mentioned concerns about that.
It's like, yeah, you know, it could have been better if it would have been great, you 
know.
At the same time like you have in college you have your lab. Which correlates with the 
classroom instruction you have. 
Now we don't have that flexibility. So, that's some of the cons associated with that, but 
it's, that's a good option and it works.
And if you could work it out with your state. Something very valuable to you. And they 
get great education through the local university. 
Okay. So, benefits of development of a non-certified tech.
What are some of the benefits? You know, so like I kind of, you know, repeating myself 
here. You know, you can fill your ranks very quickly. You can focus in on your lab needs 
immediately. So basically what we do is we're hiring the non-certs in the program. And it's a 
challenge to my trainer, but we hire them as we need them. 
And she works them in the curriculum where she's at. And tries to group them together 
the best she can to get them through the training.
But she has a check off sheet, you know, kind of like a competency form that shows 
what areas that they've achieved classroom instruction in. So she can follow them along to 
achieve that within the first year of their employment.
And you know, we have a lot of flexibility with that training, you know, having our 
trainer on site. But obviously there's drawbacks here and there is, you know, it's a big 
commitment. That's a lot of work for our trainer. She created all this curriculum from scratch. 
And used the different references and resources. She was able to work with our medical 
directors and, you know, some of the experts in the different departments to put it together. 
However, it was a lot of work and I know a lot of hospitals, labs that don't have time, 
you know, to have this dedicated person to put this curriculum together.
And then just finding somebody that's willing to be that instructor. Put the time forth to 
do it. 
I happen to have an excellent trainer who does exceptional work with our team. We had 
a very high pass rate with our certification exams.
Also one of the drawbacks, which I didn't even think of being an issue, was the fact that 
our techs that went through the traditional route then we're not always accepting of these 
non-certified techs. They give them somewhat of a have a hard time initially, you know, knowing 
that there is a different route. 
They felt they weren't necessarily qualified for the work they were doing, even though 
they went through the, followed the same competency process that we had in the laboratory. 
They have to prove themselves competent before we allow them to do the lab work 
independently. I think that's pretty much washed away within that, certified techs proving their 
value and their ability to learn quickly and meet the work demands. 
So my trainer, as I mentioned before, Carolyn Hager, put her name out there. Excellent 
trainer, don't try to steal her.
But she did an excellent job, you know, putting this instruction together. She outlined 
the topics for the students. 
Developed all the presentations. She identified appropriate textbooks, worked with 
medical directors to get some advice and opinions on that, worked with some experts like I said 
in the lab. 
She scheduled and worked with the managers as far as, scheduling the classroom 
instruction, what time of the week, end of the week, during second or third shift, first shift, 
wherever the calendar would go. She created timing for a classroom to work with the 
managers so they could have time on the lab not interfering with that, but you know also 
making sure they get the classrooms instruction as close to what they're working in as they can. 
Not always doable, but as best we can. And like I said, she's always rotating new 
candidates as, as we hire. So we asked for some of the perspectives from the candidates. So the 
pro is, you know, like I mentioned before, like myself way back when. 
As you get that college degree, you're not sure what you're gonna do, but the clinical lab 
could be a career opportunity that you may not have considered. I think it's a great career, you 
know, helping a lot of patients and people. And like I mentioned here, the cons.
Initially it's tough to pick up some of the laboratory lingo that you would normally get in 
the normal CLS program. 
Oh, but it didn't seem like it was too difficult for them to catch on. You know, they had a 
strong, biological and chemical background.
So it went fairly smoothly. It did take a little bit longer on the bench to gain competency 
because of this. 
But not anything I would consider to be significant detractors from them learning and 
the program. And then like I mentioned before, some of the technical staff were frustrated with 
the fact that they had to explain some of the basic things in the laboratory that they would 
assume that a person should know when they come in. 
One of my chemistry managers, here she mentioned some of the pros and cons
associated with the program, her being the manager that now inherits these non-certified 
techs, works with the trainer to fill the role.
Like I mentioned, we had a lot of good candidates to fill the positions very quickly. They 
need the hands-on training, you know, provided excellent support for them. And so on. I won't 
read it all. The cons. Like I said before, you know, they didn't understand some of the lingo. 
They required some additional training and time with the trainers. And we're, and I'm 
not sure it was only these non-certified techs. We're starting to see a greater churn, especially 
younger adult workers that are turning over, leave the lab more quickly. So there's a lot more 
training going on in the lab. This is the fact we're seeing a greater churn once down. So, that's 
the non-certified tech program. I'm sure it generated a bunch of questions and I can certainly 
answer them in the Q&A. 
Another approach to addressing your staffing challenges is creating a medical lab 
assistant. Some of you may already have lab assistants in a lab that’s gone that route. Years ago 
ours hadn’t and considered it and wasn’t sure about it. It's a opportunity for folks with a high 
school education. They have interest in the lab, but didn't go through the educational route to 
gain, you know, MLT or CLS. 
And what I'm affording them is an opportunity to get their foot in the door and learn 
about the lab. We have tuition reimbursement here at WDL, so we encourage these folks to go 
on to an MLT or CLS program depending on where they want to go. Oh, as you can see here, 
the program requires a high school education. 
We expect to generally hire folks that have live experience already in our processing 
area. We created the MLA to be, basically a promotional opportunity over processing. 
So we have an MLA 1 and MLA 2 role. For MLA 2, we have the expectation that you 
become a certified medical lab assistant through ASCP or AMT. So that is a requirement in 
order to get promoted up to MLA 2. So we want to hang that carrot in front of them.
I think it's important to show that they've met this. If they’re accredited, people get 
more respect from their affiliates working within the laboratory. So my trainer has already 
created curriculum for this program. We're gonna give them basic lab skills. 
That will go on for several weeks as a part of their initial training. In the laboratory also 
the expectation is as they move up to level 2 role that they'll be able to support more than one 
department. 
They'll be able to support multiple departments. And the training will give them some 
background experience to support more than one department. 
The big key here, it's gonna be immediate help in the laboratory. So if you're short 
clinical lab staff, MLAs can do a lot of the work that technical staff simply don't have time for, or 
you wanted them to focus in at the highest level of their education which is result entry 
troubleshooting. Dealing with those difficult patient situations or specimens.
I'll let this lab assistant run these samples around. You know, set up 
calibration/validation materials on the instrument. They just set it up. They don't validate it. 
That would be validated by a clinical lab scientist or an MLT. So that's the main intent of this is 
to truly pick up a lot of the busy work, you know, instrument maintenance, you know, setting 
up instruments. 
There is a lot they can do. We've identified a lot of opportunities as you'll see here. 
Here's the eligibility. I won't go through this in detail. Just give you the slide to take a look. See 
what this might entail. 
As far as, you know, getting these folks certified within this. You know, you can see you 
have to be an accredited laboratory. The CLIA, you know, CAP, in our case, ISO. We'll meet that 
requirement. Depending on their education level, you know, as you can see here, it determines 
how long they have to be on the job before they're eligible for the exam.
A lot of our processing folks have already been in the lab for several years and in a sense 
meet a lot of the on the job experience already coming in. So this is, my trainer put this 
together. This is the content of the exam. One thing we identified is, there is phlebotomy 
information. We generally are probably not going to have these folks do phlebotomy, but we're 
going to give them the classroom instruction, which I think is important to understand.
The pre-analytical, the front end part that you know, that specimen collection and what 
that all entails and getting a good quality sample. 
So I think it's valuable to have this knowledge and information and noting a lot of clinical 
lab science programs are not focused on phlebotomy any longer, which I think is an 
unfortunate situation because they don't always see or link the sample to the patient because 
they don't have a lot of that experience. So. Kind of a lost opportunity but part of the 
examination. Oh, so we, like I mentioned before, we provide them classroom instruction. I 
mean, the intent is to really get them up to speed. 
If they don't have that background and knowledge. You know, processing folks, we hire 
high school graduates, they do not necessarily have much lab or science background. And they 
know how to handle the sample but they don't always know the why behind it. So a big part of 
this is really about why and the understanding behind that sample, what it all means and where
it came from. And, make sure they have that.
Also, the continuing education program to support them as they move forward. And like 
I said, we're really trying to set a situation where they can rotate different areas. Where the 
greatest need is. Depending on who needs, who has the most staffing shortage, who can 
benefit from the MLA work that day. 
Yep, you can see the two different exams, the AMT and the ASCP, I don’t know if one's 
any better than the other. But they both offer a certification exam. You know, available to the 
candidate. 
So Jo Mentzer, our micro- and molecular manager there, is going to give us some 
feedback. So her positive feedback, she can select from qualified team members. So. We 
generally expect a recruit within our processing staff that have some time in the lab. They know 
our LIS system, they know how to handle a sample.
They know a lot about samples already. Bring them in an MLA role and pull them into 
the technical parts of the lab or so.
And somebody that shows interest in that we can further development. Like I said, it 
frees up technical team members and encourages further development for these folks, which 
we hope that they'll go on to further school. 
And become an MLT or CLS at some point. Here's some of the duties and roles and 
responsibilities that we figure they can support with. I mentioned some of this already. This 
kind of gives you more visual what we're looking at.
These folks assisting within the laboratory. As you can see here, this is a lot of the bulk 
of the work I'm sure your CLS or MLT folks do right now. This is another alternative. 
We don't require necessarily that certification upfront, but they can get a lot of this 
work done in the laboratory if you're really short-staffed in certain areas in the laboratory. And 
so you may be already doing this and benefiting from it. Which is great. 
Another perspective from our pre-analytical manager, Jonathan Smith, in this case. He's 
likely going to be the one that doesn't benefit so much from this program, meaning he’s going 
to be our feeder source for these folks. But that's what he's all about. He's truly trying to ensure 
that these folks can grow in their career and more encouraging on these folks.
So the people that he works with in there are MLT or MLS students. So he gives them 
time in the processing area to get that, you know, in the lab experience upfront. So there is a 
benefit to the student, you know, working towards their, this degree or certification as well.
Let's see how much time I've got. About 4 minutes. So, so. What I was focused on was 
some of the programs I put together in the last couple of years, but there's been other 
programs within WDL, following in line with the non-certified tech program. So I didn't focus on 
histology. My histology manager, Chris Bradley, has developed a program where he works with 
LTAs in the lab and he has progressive LTA 1, 2, 3. Puts them through that training on the job 
and education, which allows them to be eligible for the HT. And if they have a bachelor's 
degree, for the HTL, which he's been very successful.
In fact, his department in histology, he had a waiting list for staff members coming in. 
And he had to end his program because he had, he didn't have a need for further HTs at the 
time. So. But he can bring this program up and down depending on what his lab needs are. So I 
think currently, he had a couple folks rotate so now he's bringing it back up. Where he's gonna 
bring in some LTAs and develop them into HTs through his histology training program. Ah, 
micro/molecular. I didn't mention that before, but they've been doing this for years, but not in 
any formalized manner. The folks brought in as non-certified techs were kind of on their own.
We have hired a trainer within the micro department who is putting together classroom 
instruction and giving a more formalized structure. Having them follow the expectation that 
they become certified in the time period. And that's been a successful program. 
Micro/molecular is largely, more than half of the folks working in there have come 
through this type of program. Blood Bank, I'm starting to gain buy-in from them. So currently 
they don't follow this program. But. I think they're growing willingness with the staffing 
challenges they're having within that.
Also, it opened up some, networking opportunities. SHIELD of Illinois, down in the 
University of Illinois-Chicago., was putting together a CLDP program, clinical lab development 
program of their own. And we, networked and worked with them.
They're actually providing us with some train the trainer type curriculum that we can 
work with. Oh, if you have any interest in it, let me know. Also what I've been doing nationwide 
is, I've created what I call the WDL Education Collaborative. 
I want to put that out there. What it is, is I have speakers. I spoke about all the stuff 
that I've done. I'm having my histo manager, Chris Bradley, speak at the next education 
collaborative. But I've had speakers from East Coast, West Coast, from all different laboratories 
throughout the country speaking about some of their staffing solutions. So it's WDL Education 
Collaborative. Once you get on this collaborative, we send you the invites to the next upcoming 
Webex.
It's, it's generally an hour long. And you can just participate by listening in and see what 
other solutions folks are using. Oh, what I'm selling you may not work its best for your lab, but 
something that some other lab is working with. 
So I've had speakers each month through last year speaking about some of their 
alternative solutions. And it's been very successful. So if you have any interest in participating, 
there's no cost associated with it. It's just free. You send your email message here, “I want to be 
part of this” and then you're on that group forever. If you want to participate in an upcoming 
session, great. If you don't, you don't have to, but we send out all the materials that were 
presented at each of these Webex conferences. So I encourage you, if you want to hear what 
others are doing throughout the country, this is a venue to do that. And it's a great way to 
network, with folks throughout the country. I've been networking throughout and I started all 
this when I had people reach out to me after they read my article in CAP TODAY from August 
2022.
All right, I think I'm at the end here. This says my time is running at the end for, now 
we're moving into questions and answers. But these are the topics that we had covered. So do I 
just stop sharing my slides, then and? Yeah, so yes Mike, that'd be great.
Okay. Okay, we'll take a few minutes to answer as many questions as possible. If we do 
not answer your question today, we'll do our best to answer via email.
That's if you haven't submitted that question anonymously. If you have any 
questions after today, feel free to email us at OneLab@CDC.gov. Okay, let's see. I'll start with 
this one. Is the program open to international participants for laboratory positions? Because we 
have someone that's from Canada, they're just kinda asking.
Okay. Yeah. 
Go ahead.
Yeah, sure. No, but that is a really good question. I'd like to believe they are able to, I 
guess as long as they meet the education requirement. 
So. I mean, I'd obviously be willing to hire, but I would have to verify through ASCP if 
they meet the eligibility requirements to, to achieve the certification after that job experience. 
Which, as you are aware, if you go into the ASCP site, they have multiple alternative approaches 
to achieving requirements to become ASCP certified and especially if that’s what you're 
interested in. 
So I wouldn't give up on that. I would certainly give it a look at the ASCP website and see 
what the eligibility requirements are. If that's the case. I think you would find interest in 
laboratories to do this with you, work with you on that.
Okay. One other question. So the, the NCTs, do they start in just one department? Or 
maybe limit it to the testing. Do you? Let's see what else to say. Do they get an opportunity to 
actually, until they reach their certification? I guess, so are they starting just one area and then 
they're limited to the testing and then, as they progress, then they're able to actually kind of 
meet all the qualifications to be able to take the testing for certification?
Right, so what we do here is, most of the people we hire in this program are for the core 
lab, which covers him hematology and chemistry. And we train them in both areas. So we put 
them, since they meet CLIA ‘88 requirements, to work in the laboratory. They meet that 
walking in the door. So we put them through the same on the bench competency as we do any 
tech. So once they achieve competency through our training, we allow them to work 
independently on the lab as they work. 
Then obviously they get paid as a non -certified tech, work as a non-certified tech until 
they're able to achieve the certification. So if they achieve certification in chemistry, we're not 
just limiting them to work in chemistry. As long as they achieve competency in the specialty 
area that they're trained in on the bench, they can perform that. We encourage them to gain 
both certifications.
Over time, I think it's a benefit to them moreso as well from a career perspective. Okay, 
did that answer your question? 
Hmm. Yes, it did. This is a really good one. How do you get approval for this type of 
program if your state has a license requirement? So if your state has a license requirement, 
how are you able to actually get approval for a program like this? Yeah, since Wisconsin doesn't 
have that, I'm not sure I can answer that question, but I would, I guess my first thought would 
be to reach out to your licensure body in your state and see what those requirements might be. 
They might require you to have a NAACLS accredited program, which we're not NAACLS 
accredited. But it's not a requirement to become ASCP first. In fact, you're not even required to 
give them classroom instruction. ASCP only requires on the job experience with a certain 
transcript, meeting transcript requirements with a bachelor's degree. But your state licensure 
will probably let you know if you're eligible, if they're able to then certify or have them work in 
your laboratory based on what their licensure requirements are. 
I know it's a handful of states like New York, California. I know of two off the top of my 
head that may require special requirements for that.
Okay. Do you require a minimum, have a minimum requirement for working time? For 
example, like two years to be in your lab? So I guess, is there, do they sign some type of 
agreement that they're going to work for at least a year? Oh. Yeah, no, I get that question all 
the time and no, we don't have any type of agreement with them. I mean, my main reasoning 
for that is I want the person to stay in our laboratory because they think this is the best lab and 
this is where they want to work.
If they're unhappy, they want to go somewhere else, I prefer they go elsewhere than 
having an agreement where they’re only sticking around because they're going to get charged a 
certain amount of money because they left early. 
Being honest with you, when I started in the lab, they had that hanging over my head. 
You know, I don't, I was gonna stick around anyway. However, it was a negative. It was a 
negative approach to keeping people around. And I'd rather, I want them to stick around 
because they want to stay in our lab, you know, they're motivated to work with us.
And you're right, it from that perspective, you know, you may call me dumb, you know, 
cause I'm putting in all this time and effort and I'm not expecting them to stick around.
I guess time will tell who comes ahead in that, that scenario. But I think I will in the long 
run because I have only people working here that want to work here and really enjoy working 
here. Yeah. Let's see. Oh, this is a good one also. Does the organization pay for the team 
member to take their certification exam?
So we, yes we do. So we pay for the exam that they pass. If they take the exam and they 
fail it, we don't pay for a failed exam. 
We pay for the one time passed exam. So obviously there again motivation. You know, if 
you pass you get, the exam gets paid for and you get a big pay increase. 
It's pretty significant. But if you fail the exam. So, we've had some of our candidates go 
into it kind of lackadaisical, not thinking they had to study much. “I got this.” And they learn 
the hard way, you know. And we really want you to go in there and, you know, put all your, you 
know, efforts forth to make sure you're going to pass the exam. It's not an easy exam as most 
of you know.
Yeah. Oh yeah, I was one of those who just went in there. I think, oh, I know this.
I can do this. And yeah. 
Yup. Do you have experience hiring IMGs?
IMG? I’m not sure what I-M-G stands for. Yeah. Okay.
So. How do you recommend reaching college students who may not attend large
universities with career fairs? Are online webinars effective, especially if recorded and having 
live Q&A?
Yeah, that's a good question. Cause I, you know, Hey, you’ve got to find the audience. 
You know, can you get the audience of these folks to listen to any seminars?
And that's something, you know, if you have a smaller university or university in your 
area, you're trying to reach. I'd reach out to one of the faculty at this university and set up--
I think it's better in person and that's what we do at the high schools is that actually, you 
know, get one of your lab members that want to speak to the career and actually set up a time 
for them to actually speak to the university and you could, they could tape it I suppose and 
present it to others that aren't able to make it at that time.
But I think that would be an effective way of reaching college students who are not sure 
what they want to do. 
They might be in a biology or chemistry degree and you know, this is giving them an 
alternative. We did a research poll at the Executive War College and we found out of the people 
we polled only one person actually was aware of clinical lab scientists before they graduated 
high school. Most of them found out it after high school or while they were in college. So that's, 
you know, so it's important to try to get on that.
So I think it's more important to go at the high school level. Get them interested in this 
field. We do a lot of job shadowing here at the laboratory. There's another way to get them.
I can make a lot of connections with the local high schools. We've been speaking at the 
high schools and offering as we speak, opportunity to shadow in the laboratory and then a lot 
of times these students take us up on it.
Yeah, this is a great, we'll take this one last question and I think it's a really good one.
Okay. 
But they said that information presented is definitely a step in the right direction, but 
seems to be aimed toward large facilities that have the staffing and capabilities to teach and 
train on the job.
What suggestions do you have for smaller labs such as critical access hospitals that do 
not have the resources to achieve that level of commitment. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that is a really 
good question. That's the concern I have. And the main reason why I had put together that 
apprenticeship program.
Because I know a lot of hospital labs don't have the size and abilities that I have.
Working with the local universities to get the education can be your solution for that. 
But it also requires, you know, you on the job, you know, educating them at the bench. 
That, you know, unfortunately that's the nature of the animal and you're gonna start 
seeing more churn of younger adults in the workforce. So training is going to be part of it. I 
know it's difficult.
In a lot, lot of times the smaller hospital labs or clinics are associated with a larger hub 
hospital. The hub and spoke model. I think that's where the leaders, you know, in that 
organization need to come together and look at that larger laboratory to be kind of that 
resource for in the ability, you know, money-wise and staffing wise, you know, training-wise, to 
help these smaller labs within their system to develop it. That's one thing we're trying to do 
here at WDL.
We're the large core lab of our network and we have the ability to do a lot of these 
things in our opportunities to support our smaller hospital labs in this venture.
But I, there, it's a different solution for all and that's why I put the education 
collaborative together because one size doesn't fit all and you know, that's one thing I'll work 
on is trying to get a speaker from a smaller hospital and some of the things that they've done to 
help their situation with staffing.
Sure.
Yeah. Well, I'd like to say thank you again, Mike, for presenting today, we'll hopefully 
have you back again. For another OneLab network event.
Oh sure, I'd be more than happy. I appreciate you guys giving me this time and pass the 
word. Absolutely. 
We all are. Yep. That people are all lab people, I've found. 
I've worked in a lot of labs over my years and we all. We all speak the language, we all 
get together really well.
And we're all here to support each other and that's what I'm about.
Yep. 
Okay.
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Yes. Okay. We would like to highlight the upcoming July OneLab Network event briefly. 
This event is “The Newborn Screening System and the Role of Quality Assessment and Technical 
Assistance from CDC.” It will be presented by Dr. Carla Cuthbert. She's the branch chief of the 
newborn screening and molecular biology branch here at CDC. 
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